Looking for insights and strategies to boost your job search in the new year? As we’re coming up to the start of the new year, I wanted to experiment with a different format and this episode focuses entirely on job search and has bite size clips from some of the previous guests on the podcast.
Now that there are close to 70 episodes, some new listeners are not sure where to start so hopefully this will help. If this is successful, I will look to create episodes on different themes including leadership, mindset, communication and building your network. Please let me know what you think.
The episode will begin by looking at mindset and its importance, especially if you have been laid off and are looking to start your job search with Amii Barnard-Bahn (Episode 18) and Octavia Goredema (Episode 57).
The focus moves onto how to get your job search started and some strategies that may help with Minola Jac (Episode 50), Emilie West (Episode 12), Jenny Foss (Episode 49), Dorie Clark (Episode 5) and Simon Alexander Ong (Episode 11).
Following this will be insights on the interview process and ideas to help you stand out and ace that interview with Shola Kaye (Episode 14), Navid Nazemian (Episode 44) and Paul Berry (Episode 38).
We finish with ideas to keep your motivation going if you’re not getting the results you want and ways of managing failure with Dr Kurt Nelson (Episode 61) and Tammy Gooler Loeb (Episode 59).
I hope you found these insights helpful and wishing you success in your job search in 2024!
The edited transcript of the interview is at the end. It has been edited for clarity and ease of reading. I hope you find it helpful.
Contact The Guests
All the guests contact details, including social media will be in the individual episode show notes or can be found on my website: https://www.harshaboralessa.com/category/podcast/
Reframe & Reset Your Career Resources & Contact Info
Website: https://www.harshaboralessa.com/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ReframeResetYourCareer
LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/reframe-reset-your-career/?viewAsMember=true
E-mail – reframeandresetyourcareer@harshaboralessa.com
Thank you for your continued support of Reframe & Reset Your Career, I do appreciate it. I now have a new website, see link above, please do check it out, I hope you find it helpful.
It would be great to hear from you, the listeners, and your thoughts about the podcast, YouTube channel or anything else, it’s always a pleasure to hear your views. I have had some great reviews but not had any way of responding. Wishing everybody a happy new year!
Edited Interview Transcript
Harsha: [00:00:00] Welcome to Reframe and Reset Your Career,
a podcast to help if you’re looking for a job, getting stuck in your career, or
just trying to rediscover your why. I am your host, Harsha Boralessa, and this
podcast came from my passion for neuroscience and psychology and the
interaction with career and personal development.
I will be interviewing recognized experts and successful
professionals. And asking them to share the insights and strategies that have
helped their careers thrive. Implementing change is not easy and does take
time, but I do hope that their stories will inspire you on your path to greater
success and fulfillment in your career.
Welcome to episode 68 of the Reframe & Reset Your Career
podcast. Before we begin, I want you to thank all the listeners for their
support. We have had some amazing increases in listener metrics this year, and
we’ll share the final numbers in January. If you’re enjoying the podcast on the
YouTube channel, please consider [00:01:00]
subscribing.
It is free and does make such a difference to independent shows
like this one. As we’re coming up to the start of the new year, I wanted to
experiment with a different format. And this episode focuses entirely on job
search and has bite sized clips from some of the previous guests. Now that
there are close to 70 episodes, Some new listeners are not sure where to start,
so hopefully this will help.
If this is successful, we will look to create episodes on
different themes, including leadership, mindset, communication, and building
your network. Please let me know what you think. Please note that in this
episode, we may touch on mental health and wellness topics, but only in general
terms. If you have specific issues or concerns, please contact a suitable
professional.
Now back to the show. The episode will begin by looking at
mindset and its importance, especially if you’ve been laid off and are looking
to start your job search. Then we will [00:02:00]
focus on how to get your job search started and some strategies that may help.
Following this will be insights on the interview process and ideas to help you
stand out and ace that interview.
We finish with ideas to keep your motivation game. If you’re
not getting the results you want and ways of managing failure. The first clip
is from episode 18 with Amii Barnard-Bahn, who created the Promotability Index
(PI) framework, and self assessment, and is the author of the PI Guidebook, she
talks about approaching your job search with the right mindset.
Amii Barnard-Bahn: I
loved your point about, I want to emphasize it, that you do need to get
experience for your job search. Your issues before you start interviewing, it
comes through if you’re still angry and I’ve seen this as a recruiter. I’ve
done talent acquisition. I’ve overseen it.
You need to be ready and strong and excited when you’re looking
for another job. It’s just the negativity shows up or you’re bitter. It’s [00:03:00] amazing. Some of the stupid things people
actually say in interviews, but you’ve got to work through it and you can set a
timeline.
I know one mind trick,
if you will, for our silly lizard brains that usually get activated when we’re
angry or upset or feel things are unfair, is to set a timeline say, I’m going
to allow myself to be upset for 3 months? It could be 2 weeks. If you’re
someone who can move quickly, but I’m going to, actively, and I’m going to get
counselling. I’m going to talk to some of my best friends. I’m going to talk to
so and so who I know went through the same exact thing 5 years ago.
After the 3 months passes, am I still going to spend a lot of
my time and energy on this, or am I going to check in with yourself? And I
think you’ll find that you can start to move on to other things.
Harsha: I suppose the
thing is you could talk to your friends, but eventually they’re going to get
tired. If you’re still stuck in talking about.
Amii Barnard-Bahn:
Okay. Have we all been there before?
Harsha: Or the
boyfriend or girlfriend who left. They’re just not coming back.
Amii Barnard-Bahn:
And we’ve all had the friend who couldn’t [00:04:00]
give up the ghost or whatever the right phrase is. Yeah. They, they just were
stuck. They’re stuck. And it’s like, come on, you guys got to move on. And I
know it’s easier said than done. I don’t mean to seem unempathetic. I truly am
empathetic. I want to see people happy.
Harsha: We now have
Octavia Goredema, career coach and the author of Prep, Push, Pivot from episode
57. And she talks about dealing with the shock of redundancy and processing
your thoughts and emotions.
Octavia Goredema:
It’s really hard, Harsha, more often than not, even if you knew there might be
a potential of this happening when you find out that it’s happening to you, it’s
a really hard thing.
Here in the United States, it can have immediate effect. You
literally find out on the morning and that’s it. If you’re finding out via
email, which a lot of people do, especially in reductions in force, which is
when more than 50 people are laid off here, you’re finding out via an email and
then you lose access.[00:05:00]
To your email and, you know, anything that you have done at
that company in that time, or if you’re in, in an office, you get called into a
meeting and told this is your last day today. It’s jarring. The first thing I
would tell anyone to do is to take time to process how they feel, whether it’s.
Frustration, anger, upset, confusion, take the time to process.
It might be that you need to go back to your human resources point of contact
with some clarifying questions, because when you’re receiving information and
you’re processing at the same time, it’s a lot more than likely you want time
to go back and to ask some questions and know that you can do that, but take
time to process your emotions.
Talk to somebody as you are doing that. I think that’s very,
very important. Don’t keep it all inside. And then maybe after a couple of
days, you can start to think about what you do next. [00:06:00]
And some of that will be dependent on the timeframe that you have. In terms of
your own personal finances and what you need to do potentially in the time that
you have to find your next opportunity.
And that will vary for everybody. For some people, they’ve got
to find the next thing immediately. Other people might have been given what
they call a severance package here that will cover them for a period of time.
Here in the United States, your health insurance is tied to your employment. So
many people are here on work visas tied to their employment. They might have 60
days to find their next employer before they lose their right to work in the
United States, and you might only have 30 days or 10 days or 15 days left of
health insurance, and then you don’t, you have to have coverage, which you’re
paying for yourself.
So there are huge considerations financial before you even get
into the how will I find that next opportunity? And what am I going to do next?
So it’s a lot to process. Once you’ve [00:07:00]
processed, you’ve asked your clarifying questions, you’ve considered what your
timeline is. Think about what you want to do next, and then think about who you
need to tell so that you can maximize your reach.
Harsha: This next
part looks at ideas to get your job search going, and other strategies to help
your job search. We start with Minola Jac from episode 50, who stresses the
importance of not talking yourself out of applying for jobs. Minola is an
experienced change manager and the author of Everyday Inspiration for Change.
Minola Jac: First and
foremost, do not self reject, do not fall in the trap that if you don’t tick
all the boxes in a job description or in a role description, or if you had 10
applications that feel like black holes, speak to yourself as you would support
your best friend going through the same situation. What I have learned while I
was [00:08:00] in the same situation not too
long ago, I learned that the universe falls in love with a stubborn heart.
And if rationally you feel that everything is just a dead end, if
you feel that there is something out there for you, it is. And, what I would
say is when it feels too much, go for a walk, reframe and reset the way you
think about it. And what I learned, people can reach out to me and I’m, I’m
happy to, to detail this.
If I look back at rejections that really unsettled me and made
me question my sanity Those rejections were protections and whatever it is that
you do, do it knowing who you are and then what you can do will show up. Reach
out to people. And take now [00:09:00] as the
gift of time and energy to be repurposed.
Harsha: Yeah, I just
love that and I also think, as you were saying, if you are stuck or you’ve hit
a roadblock, it’s definitely worthwhile, if you have some good friends, speak
to them because I think keeping things in your head is not good. And if you
explain that situation to somebody else, maybe they can see something that
you’re not doing well.
Or maybe look at your CV or look at an application and just see
if there are things that you’re not expressing properly, because it’s important
to be stubborn, but it’s also important to just check in and just figure out,
am I doing things the right way? Maybe course correcting slightly might help.
Minola Jac: And also
one point that, that I learned and it’s still a struggle of mine is to ask for
the help that helps you. Because some people, when you share the situation that
you’re dealing with, they will automatically jump to [00:10:00]
solutions and you could say, look, before we speak about how I can tweak my CV
or how I can add 27 more lines in my Excel spreadsheet, I just need a space to
let this frustration out.
Because if I take it with me in an interview, yeah, I do
believe that people have by default an embedded energy radar. Sometimes the
best help is a safe space to vent and rent and then we can update the CV. We
can rethink about companies. We can rethink about potential career avenues, but
also ask for the help that helps you.
Harsha: The next clip
is with Emilie West, who emphasizes the need for taking a little time and not
rushing into a job out of fear. Emilie is the founder of Alchemy Coaching and
previously worked for 14 years in investment banking and was on episode 12.
Emilie West: Well, I
think [00:11:00] before anyone panics and you rush
into just desperately applying for jobs, you need to just stop and take some
time out for yourself. In my coaching mantra, stop, think, grow, you know,
stop, try and pause. If you can buy yourself a bit of time, have a weekend
away. It’s very hard to make job decisions when you’re caught up in your job
and especially if it’s high pressure. So just give yourself a bit of breathing
space and thinking time and then take thinking time, but not just thinking
time.
Please talk to people, whether it’s a coach or friends that you
trust or colleagues who are helpful, but just start talking through what you’re
struggling with. Don’t expect that you have the answer to whatever problem
you’re going through. Someone else has the answer, someone else has been
through this before you, Harsha’s podcast, amazing source of inspiration.
Just start listening, but it’s true. Listen to inspiring
conversations, read inspiring books, and it can help you work through things.
And then you can start taking action, as I said before, about applying for
jobs, but also go exploring and be open minded. Now, sometimes we do have [00:12:00] to rush. Sometimes we lose a job and you
need some income. Then don’t be afraid to just take a contracting role. Rather
than rushing into the long term commitment that is a fixed term contract,
unless it’s a dream job, don’t rush.
It’s just like relationships again. Don’t rush from one
committed relationship to the next one, okay? Give yourself a bit of time and
freedom. I remember, when I left RBS, consciously saying, I need a bit of time
out afterwards. I knew I’d start a business, but I hadn’t formed the plan. But
I just thought, I actually need a bit of time out because I’ve been so involved
in that job. And I loved it, but I was so involved in it. I needed my, my brain
just needed a timeout, a breather, and then I was able to be creative again.
It’s very hard to be creative under pressure. So if you can buy
yourself some time and then don’t do this alone, talk to people, get advice,
get mentors, get, you know, get mentors you never meet, get YouTube mentors,
people who you like their content, listen to inspiring mentors every day. I get
some of my clients to listen to people like David [00:13:00]
Goggins to get them fired up in the morning.
Find that source of inspiration so that you come into this job
search in a, with a positive mindset, feeling positive, feeling confident
rather than coming into a job search from a place of lack and negativity.
Harsha: We now move
on to your resume and CV and Jenny Foss shares her top three ideas. Jenny is a
job search strategist, the founder and CEO of the career website, jobjenny.com
and author of Do This, Not That Career, and was on episode 49.
Jenny Foss: Number
one, and this is far and away number one is to keep it top of your mind as
you’re creating or revising your CV that this is a marketing tool. This is not
a list. This is not your autobiography. You’re creating a marking tool that’s
designed to prompt a [00:14:00] purchase
decision, if you will. And in this case, that purchase decision that you’re
looking for is invite Harsha in for an interview, that’s what you’re looking
for.
And so what you need to do with development of your CV is think
about what does my target audience need to see very quickly that I can walk
through their doors and deliver. What are those skills? What is that
experience? And how can I shine the best light on that throughout my CV? So
that’s number one.
Number two would be tell a story, tell a story. What is the
thread that weaves through your career, even if it’s a winding path, as
obviously I have had? There are threads that run through your career Maybe it’s
everything I’ve ever done speaks to my love of problem solving or really [00:15:00] strong communication skills, whatever that
is.
And also, don’t be afraid to explain what you fear, somebody’s
going to wonder or worry about. So here’s an example of that. Say I have a two
year gap between 2019 and 2021. I lost my job. It was COVID. I decided to just
stay home, whatever. But now I’m in a job, but it’s not the greatest job and
I’m thinking about looking for something new. So on my CV, I’ve got that gap and
so rather than just wait for somebody to wonder or worry about something like
that, you can always explain it.
So in your job that you have now, you could start the entry by
saying, following a COVID related downsizing was invited by this X, Y, Z
company to come do that. So you’re explaining [00:16:00]
very succinctly. How you got from one thing to the other why you had the gap.
So telling a story as you lay out the CV is a great idea.
Then 3rd is not worrying so much about the length of the CV,
even if someone says nobody’s ever going to read it if it’s over one page long.
I will tell you straight up, that is not the case now, but making sure you’re
those words are earning the spot on the page. You don’t want to blabber on and
on and make it a painful journey for somebody to get through your CV but
likewise, don’t be afraid to extend onto a second page, unless an application
or an opportunity explicitly says we need a one page CV, then you want to
follow their rules.
But if you need a couple of pages to properly shine light on
the things that make you a great [00:17:00] fit
for any particular role, take two pages. It’s not a big deal.
Harsha: Apart from
the traditional sources for jobs, your network is a great source of
intelligence and ideas, which Dorie Clark discusses. Dorie is a coach, speaker,
professor, and the author of several books, the latest being The Long Game, which
is a great read and was on Episode 5.
Dorie Clark: The
right starting place is with your existing network. I think where a lot of
people hesitate is, especially if they’re not 100% sure what they want to be
doing or where they want to be going. It can create a little bit of paralysis.
Does it look bad if you’re like, “Oh, I don’t really know what
I want to do”, do you have to get hyper specific? But then sometimes it pushes
people to say, “Oh, sure. I want another job in supply chain” because that’s
what you did before and maybe you don’t really want another job in supply
chain, but you feel like you need [00:18:00]
something, you need something to tell people. So a lot of times folks struggle
with that.
And what I would say, and this is a topic that I talk about
quite a bit in Reinventing You is, it is good to be as specific as possible,
but also don’t be afraid to not have all the answers. So for instance, you
could say something like, “well I’m considering getting another job in supply
chain, but I’m also exploring possibilities in this or this. So if you have
ideas or suggestions for me, please let me know.”
The most important thing is not to pretend to a level of
certainty that you don’t have because the worst thing you can do, I mean, we
have to think about this overall is really being about political capital and so
if you tell someone, “Oh, I definitely want to do this” and they expend
political capital to help you get that, and then you sort of back out and say, “Oh,
I was just thinking about it, but no, I’m not really going to do it” then
you’ve burned that bridge [00:19:00]. So I
think it’s really just about being clear with folks where you are in the
process so that they can help you in an appropriate fashion.
Harsha: If you’ve had
some recent setbacks, you may need to think out of the box and use your
imagination to get past a company’s initial screening. On episode 11, Simon
Alexander Ong talks about how he overcame failing his second year exams in
university to land a role as an investment bank by building relationships with
the recruiters. Simon is the author of the award winning book, Energize.
Simon Alexander Ong: When
I was applying to be a graduate at some of these investment banks, you have to
fill in an application form. And on this application form, it asks you for your
grades and your predicted grades. Now, of course, my actual grades were all
failures.
And so I knew that if I put that in, I couldn’t get past the
first filter of the system. I just wouldn’t get past that because the computer
would block me out. I wouldn’t get to the next round. This experience taught me
an important lesson. [00:20:00] Challenges are
important for our personal growth because it is in our most challenging moments
that we are equipped with the skill, the wisdom, and the insight to create the
best moments of our life.
And so what happened is because I had no choice, because I
couldn’t fill in an application form, I couldn’t get past the first round. I
had no choice but to go and network. So I decided to sign myself up to as many
of the company presentations as I could, that were happening in the City. And I
went to nearly all of them with the sole focus of building relationships with
the people that spoke and the people that were in the audience after the main
presentation was done.
And before I knew it, I had some of these contacts saying to
me, Simon, send me your CV and I’ll get you straight into HR to have an
interview. So I had to get creative in order to bypass the formal process. And
so before I knew it, I had invitations from about six banks to have the first
round interview without filling in a single application form.
And so that taught me many lessons in that when your back is
against a wall, suddenly you find creative [00:21:00]
ways in order to move forward. So when the financial crash happened and I was
out of a job after Lehman went into administration, I didn’t access that
creativity again to explore, well, what could I do?
What was in my control? Because now looking back, what I
realized. It’s that when we focus on what isn’t in our control the crash,
Brexit, the pandemic, we become paralyzed by overthinking. We dwell on
unproductive thoughts, but when we focus on what we can control, we become
empowered to take action. We get energized.
We get creative. And so that’s what I began to tap into. And I
said, maybe this is a moment, maybe this is a moment to really reflect on what
is it I want to do in my life? What does success mean to me? What does
fulfillment look like? What sort of impact do I want to have in the world? For
the first time, I can answer those questions for myself because when this
occurred, Harsha, by this time, my mom unfortunately passed away.
My dad was living in another country because of work. And so I
had this rare opportunity. Without this [00:22:00]
pressure to think what I wanted to pursue. And that’s how I started pivoting
and slowly shifting my life towards the work I’m now privileged to do today.
Harsha: Now the
interview stage, and our first insight is from Shola Kaye, who talks about the
importance of preparation and mock interviews, even if it’s just with friends
or family on episode 14. Shola is a multi award-winning speaker, and author of
two books, Big Talk, Small Talk, and How to be a Diva at Public Speaking.
Shola Kaye: Practice answering
questions. It’s funny, somebody that was in my my community for public speaking
and communication, he said he’d had, I think, about 40 or 50 interviews and
hadn’t got a single job. And then we worked together just for a week on
frameworks on how to answer questions. And then within the space of seven days,
he actually found a job. So I think it’s possible. And I think you’ve got to,
whether it’s asking family and friends to watch you on Zoom or to [00:23:00] interview you, because it just little
things like, you know, are you looking in the camera? Or what this guy would do
is he’d be asked the question and he’d say, I think (speaking fast), can you
imagine that in a job interview? Just things like that, that you may not spot.
That’s my main tip. Don’t rely just on yourself, but ask other people to
feedback.
Harsha: Sorry for the
listeners on our podcast. What Shola was doing was staring into the camera and
then jumping back, which is just not a good look on zoom. But, but I think that
that’s such a great tip. Just get somebody to go through the questions with you
and actually record it and watch yourself back. And then if you have these
annoying ticks, maybe the clothing, clothing you’re wearing is not appropriate
or whatever it is, the lighting. I totally agree with you. Preparation is so
important.
Naveed Nazamian, an experienced HR specialist talks about the
three things that he looks for in a candidate that will help them stand out at
the interview [00:24:00] stage on episode 44.
Naveed is the author of the international best selling book, Mastering
Executive Transitions, and an award winning executive coach.
Navid Nazemian: It’s
important as a candidate to demonstrate three behaviors when you are going
through an interview process. First of all, it’s the will. I really would want
to come across as someone who’s absolutely willing and motivated to do this
job. And not just that but to really be committed to be doing this and whatever
comes next.
So sometimes you have those conversations with candidates and you
really feel that there’s no real hunger and, and drive to want this job and
that’s never a good, good starting point. I mean, if your energy levels aren’t
high enough Harsha during the interview process, imagine once you’ve signed the
contract and you are in your first month or months three what the energy levels
could look like. So you really want to bring that [00:25:00]
fresh attitude towards the interview partners and the interview process. So
will, I would say is the first one.
The second one is skill and again, of course, there is a reason
you have been invited to do the interview, but boy, how much better it is to
really bring that to life during the interview process. So to show that you are
competent enough to be able to do what the job would be asking you to do, and
potentially more as well down the line. So really, it’s about being able to
speak to your strengths and competencies and of course that comes with a degree
of confidence. I don’t think we should be too full of ourselves when we go into
any process, whether it’s the interview process or any other process, but
really, being too shy and too humble, if I say imposter. Kind of our gremlins
getting out and really starting to whisper into our ears “You’re really, really
not that good, are you?” That is never helpful.
So I think, after will, skill [00:26:00]
is the other one and you need to be able to really narrow that down. You need
to be able to connect why what you have done previously directly connects with
what the job is asking of any candidate to be doing and so that’s the other
part. And of course, there’s a fine art of, particularly at the more senior
level, I would say, you need to have your career narrative..
It may not be as important if you’re more early in your career,
or maybe the middle stages, but towards the senior end, I would say it’s really
important that you are able to give your kind of career narrative over the next
60 or 90 seconds when they are asking you about it. And, only then you start to
demonstrate what competencies you have and how you might be linking them to the
job.
And the last but not least, so will and skill. And then the
third one is the mindset. I can’t overemphasize this aspect, the mindset, you
can also call it attitude is really, really crucial. I love to see when a [00:27:00] candidate has done the homework when they
come to the interview and they really know a thing or two about this company.
They have really, sometimes they research the interview
partners. If it’s known to them who will be interviewing them, they are able to
relate to the interview partners. Oh, I saw you, you studied international
management. And by the way, this was one of the courses I actually wanted to
study, but I ended up going down the economy through this and that.
So you, you’re able to relate in the moment you’re able to
demonstrate that. You have the right attitude to be able to not only fit in,
but to bring in something that ultimately matters to the conversation and to
the role. It’s the will, it’s the skill, and it’s the mindset that you should
really bring to shine during the interview process.
Harsha: The final
insight on interviews comes from Paul Berry, a performance psychologist with
nearly 15 years experience in investment banking. He talks about confidence in
the context of an interview on episode 38.
Paul Berry: What are
your values in that job [00:28:00] interview?
What’s important to you for how you will be in that job interview?
That isn’t so much about reframing. You could reframe stuff. So
if you have very high levels of anxiety because you’re thinking, “Oh, I must
get this job”, Again, as I said earlier, that means you’re putting a lot of
pressure on yourself that will be helpful to a degree up until a a turning
point.
If it’s very important to you that you get a job that will
generate self-induced pressure, which will then help you prepare for the
interview, do research on the company understand your CV, understand your area,
that’s motivational. Once it goes past the tipping point, that’s going to be
unhelpful for you.
So then, yes, having some form of perspective “Look, actually,
it’s not going to be the end of the world, if I don’t get it, there’ll be other
opportunities.” Then that can be helpful. But confidence in the interview is
much more driven by not even trying [00:29:00]
to eradicate nervousness or self doubt accepting that, but being clear on what
a good, what would be a good performance look like here in terms of what I’m
doing.
And that might be being curious. I’m going to demonstrate
curiosity about this company and about the interviewee, well, how would I know
that I was being curious? Okay, I would be asking certain questions. I want to
be a good listener in this interview. How would I know I’m listening? Well, and
what action equates to a good listening.
And so being clear on what’s important for how you want to be
translate that into particular behaviors and apply that framework in any
context, but in that interview, that’s what confidence is not. Feeling super
calm and sky high self belief because self doubt is healthy. There’s nothing
wrong with self doubt.
And if you have a too high self belief, then you could come
across as arrogant. And that will be picked up by the people interviewing you. [00:30:00] So any feeling is okay. You don’t need to
change the feeling. All that matters is what you do in the interview.
Harsha: A job search
is not a linear process, and there will be successes and failures along the
way. Firstly, we have Dr. Kurt Nelson, who discusses ways to motivate yourself
during the job search on episode 61. Kurt is a behavioral scientist, founder,
president of the Lantern Group, a communication and behavioral design agency,
and the co host of the Behavioral Grooves podcast with Tim Houlihan.
Kurt Nelson: The job
search can feel overwhelming, right? It is the big, the big goal at the end is
this job, which is a pretty big goal. And that journey to get to that goal can
be really long. And what we know about motivation is that that big goal can be
really inspirational at the beginning and really inspirational when we get
close to the end of it, but it wanes in its motivational ability in the middle.
And it’s called the problem of the [00:31:00]
middle. So we start off. “All right, January 1, I’m going to get a new job. I
want to get a new job.” You’re all excited. January 15th comes and then
February comes and then March comes and it’s like by that time just feels
daunting and I’m weighed down and I haven’t gotten the interviews I wanted in
various different things.
And so part of what you can do from a motivational perspective
is to figure out how can I break that big journey down into milestone steps?
And so what are the things I need to do? And instead of looking at that bogey
of the job as the end result. I have these steps in the process that I can then
get excited about.
Oh, I sent out 10 resumes, I got one interview call. I did, all
of those milestones. Cause those are the small little pieces that keep our
motivation up. And one of the other pieces that I want to talk about is just
that we are motivated by a sense of progress. And so even if we feel like we
are [00:32:00]
Moving just forward a little bit, right? Just a little bit.
That is much more motivational for us than being kind of stagnant or going in
decline. So again as we look at different pieces of what we need to do, try to
always really focus and frame yourself on those positives and various different
pieces.
And then one last hint on this is again at that progress piece
as we’re looking at this. One of the things that we find really motivational is
streaks, is keeping a streak going. So if you have something that you need to
do every workday, I want to send out one resume a day and don’t make it too
big. Don’t make it so it’s over daunting, make it so it’s actually pretty
achievable, but it will help you move to where you need to go.
And then you just keep that streak going. Now, with a caveat on
that is I usually give myself a cheat day or a day off so that you don’t get
what’s called the “what the hell effect” [00:33:00]
this like, “Oh, I went two weeks and sending out a resume every day. And now I
missed this Monday. Oh, what the hell? I’m just going to give up on it.”
No. All right. Well, that was the one day that I got off. Now I
need to make sure that I can start doing that for another, two weeks till the
next month because I get one day off a month or something like that or whatever
that little limit is to say I get a free shot, a free roll and to be able to do
it again.
Harsha: Our final
insight looks at the problems of managing failure in a job search and features
Tammy Gooler Loeb, executive and career coach, host of the Work From The Inside
Out podcast. An award winning author of a book of the same name, Tammy was a
guest on episode 12 and interviewed me on episodes of 26 and 59.
It’s very much about having a resilient mindset and not
worrying about failure. Say if you don’t get the interviews or even if you get
the interviews and you get rejected, who cares? Just move on. Maybe the next [00:34:00] opportunity is going to be the one that
works out and has your dream, dream job.
And if you’ve got this opportunity you wouldn’t have had a
chance. That’s right. That’s very much. I think about staying positive, almost
bending reality and saying, look, okay, I’m being rejected, but that’s not a
personal reflection on me. No, that’s just bad luck.
Tammy Gooler Loeb: Well,
I like what you just said about bending reality because part of the reality is
it feels horrible when you get rejected, even if it’s not personal, it feels
bad. And so, I think to remind people to bend reality is really important. What
I often will say to myself, if someone’s interviewed me for potential, coaching,
and they end up not hiring me, which, you know, it does happen!
I say to myself, well, I guess that just leaves the space open
for someone else to come in. And if I was to take every one of those
personally, [00:35:00] I wouldn’t be able to
get out of bed. I mean, after doing this for 25 years it’d be terrible. It’s so
liberating when you let yourself. Care a lot about what you do and what you
contribute, but you can’t care about what everyone else does in response to you
every time.
Because if you do, you will definitely shrink away and just
want to go under the covers and not come out. And that, that’s just no way to
live. And everybody has experienced rejection. Everybody has gone through these
things and they’ve lived to tell about it. This is all part of the process,
actually and so if it doesn’t work out, that just means there’s something else
better out there for you.
Harsha: I hope you
find these insights helpful. I’m wishing you success in your job search in
2024. If you’d like to listen to more episodes, please [00:36:00]
subscribe to the podcast, which is free. If you wish to listen more about any
of the resources mentioned in this episode, please take a look at the show
notes, which are available online.
Thanks once again for listening. Wishing you success with your career.
I hope you will join me again in the future.
*Reframe & Reset Your Career, including any comments made by the host and guests, is for informational purposes only and does not constitute advice of any description, including but not restricted to financial, legal, investing or medical advice.*
